I know that there's no danger of this, but PLEASE never give up your fight against Zero Tolerance. I knew that political correctness was going to be a problem when it first appeared, and this natural progression is truly frightening.
This is True's purpose of pointing out the stupidity all around us makes it the perfect forum for your rantings. I use 'rantings' as a pure compliment there, because something as insane as ZT can be addressed only with that vehemence. If you ever think you are giving too much space to the topic, keep in mind that you are educating many people in the spread of this societal cancer. The more ZT is used, the less aware people will be that, instead of being a management plan, it is just an abandonment of all planning and management.
Posted by
Florian in Romania on April 5, 2007:
For me the stupidity of ZT policies is beyond any doubt. Maybe this will make people think a little different about ZT: you Americans are proud of your democratic society. It wasn't easy for communists to enforce communism in Eastern Europe, especially since some of the countries in the region already had pretty democratic governments at that time, so communists got the power by using weapons. One of the most unpopular things they did in Romania, and which they didn't have the courage to do until the early seventies, fearing it would cause a riot which would end in a blood bath, was to take away guns from the civil population. Even then it didn't go smoothly -- several people preferred to get shot or imprisoned rather than peacefully handing over their guns. Only a few managed to hide their guns in wild places, and these guns became heritage pieces for the respective families.
But all in all, after already infiltrating the entire civil society with secret police informers, the action succeeded. This was the moment when all resistance against communism was cracked. So you see, maybe this is what ZT enforcers are also about: preparing the ground for some sort of dictatorship. (Maybe I'm exaggerating, but you never know - after 50 years of communism we know that sick minds are a lot more dirty than healthy people can imagine).
Even if it's not conscious and by intent, not giving future citizens (children) a chance to get used to the idea that sometimes it requires a fight to protect and enforce one's rights, and that being prepared for such situations is the only guarantee for a healthy society, and not giving them the opportunity to learn how to defend their and other people's rights prepares the ground for dictatorship (even if there would be willingness to resist there would be no knowhow and power). In general, anything which tends to replace responsibility with obeying rules leads to an ill society.
---
I personally don't think the ZT types are that organized, but thanks for the view from someone who's "been there". It's certainly thought-provoking.... -rc
Posted by
Glen NH on April 7, 2007:
It is too bad that Patricia thinks most kids can't distinguish between fantasy and reality. I wonder if she can?
Posted by
Mike from Dallas on April 9, 2007:
An IQ of 166, huh? Guess there's more to the theory of Idiot Savant than I would have thought. The proverbial fine line between Genius and Insanity? I have no idea what my IQ is, and from the sounds of those who brag about theirs, maybe I'm better off.
Oh, and I'm still wondering, just WHY is it that WE were smart enough at six years old to know that Elmer Fudd shooting Daffy Duck wasn't the same as real life, but now our kids and grandkids are WAY too stupid to make that distinction? Just what IS it that we did to our own kids that turned them into such helpless, babbling, unthinking nincompoops???
---
We decided that "professional" educators knew more than we did, so we stopped teaching them things at home. -rc
Posted by
Carolyn from Las Vegas, NV on April 13, 2007:
I work for a local government in the transportation field and protecting drivers from roadway hazards is one of our primary tasks. I've noticed that whenever drivers make poor decisions they try and blame us for not protecting them from themselves. It's never their fault...even though they obviously knew enough about their vehicle and the traffic laws to obtain a driver's license. We are constantly reminding our elected officials that we can't put people in a bubble and force them to drive well. Accidents and deaths are generally preventable, but people make bad decisions all the time. We always hope that the survivors learn from the mistakes that were made.
As the adults are asking their local governments to protect them from themselves, it's no surprise that they're supporting (by vote or non-action) ZT in the schools of their children. By essentially eliminating the daily decision to be reasonable, responsible and socially acceptable, children aren't growing up by experience...they're simply getting older.
ZT is merely the latest tool in the dumbing down of America and adding to the climate of social victimology; where the Patricia's of the country like to pound on their chests and shout about their own quasi-accomplishments and wait for their children to enter the work force singing the tune, "Do you want fries with that?" (But only if the register tells them it's OK or place that order AFTER the customer steps on a scale....)
Oh, and my IQ? 145...but who's counting?
Posted by
Mike from Dallas on April 13, 2007:
You're right about that. I can't tell you how much time I've spent in court after the schools have dragged me there because I wasn't raising my kids properly. Can you imagine? I considered them to be old enough in 4th Grade to cross at the traffic light by themselves. Or that, as a parent, it was my decision what constituted a proper snack. Or that I felt our family doctor was much more qualified in making a diagnosis concerning Ritalin than an elementary teacher.
And also imagine that I not only spent time and money in those courtrooms, but lost a couple of those cases. Imagine that I lost a battle with a teacher who insisted that there were 52 states in the U.S. Or lost to a teacher who felt I was handicapping my kids by teaching to use "please" and "thank you" as a form of social manners.
But those same teachers could print out tons of papers for the kids to take home, letting us know about the destruction of the rain forests so greedy companies could manufacture paper.
Posted by
Brandon from South Carolina on March 23, 2009:
So, Patricia tests in the "Genius" range... But that doesn't explain the grammatical errors... The "third worse state"? And I tend to think that "geniuses" will usually demonstrate the reading comprehension necessary to not turn a discussion about Zero Tolerance laws into a discussion of rape, abortion, women's rights, and brainwashing children. Patricia, I think you should know that when you lie, you make yourself look even more dumberer (yes, mocking through the use of horrendous grammar).
ZT: Reactions from Readers - Comments
Posted by Bruce, Ohio on April 5, 2007:
I know that there's no danger of this, but PLEASE never give up your fight against Zero Tolerance. I knew that political correctness was going to be a problem when it first appeared, and this natural progression is truly frightening.
This is True's purpose of pointing out the stupidity all around us makes it the perfect forum for your rantings. I use 'rantings' as a pure compliment there, because something as insane as ZT can be addressed only with that vehemence. If you ever think you are giving too much space to the topic, keep in mind that you are educating many people in the spread of this societal cancer. The more ZT is used, the less aware people will be that, instead of being a management plan, it is just an abandonment of all planning and management.
Posted by Florian in Romania on April 5, 2007:
For me the stupidity of ZT policies is beyond any doubt. Maybe this will make people think a little different about ZT: you Americans are proud of your democratic society. It wasn't easy for communists to enforce communism in Eastern Europe, especially since some of the countries in the region already had pretty democratic governments at that time, so communists got the power by using weapons. One of the most unpopular things they did in Romania, and which they didn't have the courage to do until the early seventies, fearing it would cause a riot which would end in a blood bath, was to take away guns from the civil population. Even then it didn't go smoothly -- several people preferred to get shot or imprisoned rather than peacefully handing over their guns. Only a few managed to hide their guns in wild places, and these guns became heritage pieces for the respective families.
But all in all, after already infiltrating the entire civil society with secret police informers, the action succeeded. This was the moment when all resistance against communism was cracked. So you see, maybe this is what ZT enforcers are also about: preparing the ground for some sort of dictatorship. (Maybe I'm exaggerating, but you never know - after 50 years of communism we know that sick minds are a lot more dirty than healthy people can imagine).
Even if it's not conscious and by intent, not giving future citizens (children) a chance to get used to the idea that sometimes it requires a fight to protect and enforce one's rights, and that being prepared for such situations is the only guarantee for a healthy society, and not giving them the opportunity to learn how to defend their and other people's rights prepares the ground for dictatorship (even if there would be willingness to resist there would be no knowhow and power). In general, anything which tends to replace responsibility with obeying rules leads to an ill society.
---
I personally don't think the ZT types are that organized, but thanks for the view from someone who's "been there". It's certainly thought-provoking.... -rc
Posted by Glen NH on April 7, 2007:
It is too bad that Patricia thinks most kids can't distinguish between fantasy and reality. I wonder if she can?
Posted by Mike from Dallas on April 9, 2007:
An IQ of 166, huh? Guess there's more to the theory of Idiot Savant than I would have thought. The proverbial fine line between Genius and Insanity? I have no idea what my IQ is, and from the sounds of those who brag about theirs, maybe I'm better off.
Oh, and I'm still wondering, just WHY is it that WE were smart enough at six years old to know that Elmer Fudd shooting Daffy Duck wasn't the same as real life, but now our kids and grandkids are WAY too stupid to make that distinction? Just what IS it that we did to our own kids that turned them into such helpless, babbling, unthinking nincompoops???
---
We decided that "professional" educators knew more than we did, so we stopped teaching them things at home. -rc
Posted by Carolyn from Las Vegas, NV on April 13, 2007:
I work for a local government in the transportation field and protecting drivers from roadway hazards is one of our primary tasks. I've noticed that whenever drivers make poor decisions they try and blame us for not protecting them from themselves. It's never their fault...even though they obviously knew enough about their vehicle and the traffic laws to obtain a driver's license. We are constantly reminding our elected officials that we can't put people in a bubble and force them to drive well. Accidents and deaths are generally preventable, but people make bad decisions all the time. We always hope that the survivors learn from the mistakes that were made.
As the adults are asking their local governments to protect them from themselves, it's no surprise that they're supporting (by vote or non-action) ZT in the schools of their children. By essentially eliminating the daily decision to be reasonable, responsible and socially acceptable, children aren't growing up by experience...they're simply getting older.
ZT is merely the latest tool in the dumbing down of America and adding to the climate of social victimology; where the Patricia's of the country like to pound on their chests and shout about their own quasi-accomplishments and wait for their children to enter the work force singing the tune, "Do you want fries with that?" (But only if the register tells them it's OK or place that order AFTER the customer steps on a scale....)
Oh, and my IQ? 145...but who's counting?
Posted by Mike from Dallas on April 13, 2007:
You're right about that. I can't tell you how much time I've spent in court after the schools have dragged me there because I wasn't raising my kids properly. Can you imagine? I considered them to be old enough in 4th Grade to cross at the traffic light by themselves. Or that, as a parent, it was my decision what constituted a proper snack. Or that I felt our family doctor was much more qualified in making a diagnosis concerning Ritalin than an elementary teacher.
And also imagine that I not only spent time and money in those courtrooms, but lost a couple of those cases. Imagine that I lost a battle with a teacher who insisted that there were 52 states in the U.S. Or lost to a teacher who felt I was handicapping my kids by teaching to use "please" and "thank you" as a form of social manners.
But those same teachers could print out tons of papers for the kids to take home, letting us know about the destruction of the rain forests so greedy companies could manufacture paper.
Posted by Brandon from South Carolina on March 23, 2009:
So, Patricia tests in the "Genius" range... But that doesn't explain the grammatical errors... The "third worse state"? And I tend to think that "geniuses" will usually demonstrate the reading comprehension necessary to not turn a discussion about Zero Tolerance laws into a discussion of rape, abortion, women's rights, and brainwashing children. Patricia, I think you should know that when you lie, you make yourself look even more dumberer (yes, mocking through the use of horrendous grammar).
Read the article that everyone's commenting on, or post a comment about it.